Posts by Disillusioned JW

179

The Watchtower is NOT a false prophet

by The Quiet One in

regarding what some have said here about the wt being a false prophet.. i would like to make my point regarding the wt not being a false prophet... so please, if you can be patient enough to read this, at least try to understand what i am getting at.. a false prophet is one who, according to deuteronomy, makes a false prediction of the future and claims that the prediction came from god, or in other words claiming that 'god has said he will do a certain thing at a certain time' etc.. for example, hypothetically speaking, if someone had claimed: "god will bring about the end of the world in 2010", they would have been proven to be a false prophet, obviously.

but, as an example, imagine a man who claimed the position of a prophet of god, (as moses did, because although he was not the type of prophet that predicted the future.. he was still a prophet or spokesman for god) and that he had publicised worldwide, according to his interpretation of a (for example) prophecy found in the book of isaiah, that the world would end in 2010.. and he had also stated that he was not saying that god will end the world in that year.. but only that there was biblical evidence that god might do so.

that would clearly have been a mistake.

Disillusioned JW

Like the WT did in a WT article in the 1970s where they said JW are in some sense of a "prophet" to my shock I noticed yesterday that they are saying that again, though with more careful wording! I noticed such in the 2006 WT publication (the most recently copyrighted WT book I have obtained) called Live With Jehovah's Day In Mind. Notice what it says on pages 165-167. [By the way I obtained that book in the year 2006, I think, but I didn't start reading it (other than to browse it) until a few days ago. Back in 2006 I was not attending any JW meetings other than the memorial and perhaps some assemblies and conventions.] Page 166 says 'As we noted in Chapter 1 of this book, the words "prophet' and "prophetic" have a variety of meanings. Although you may not be a prophet in the sense that Amos or the other ancient prophets were, you can still speak out about the future.' [Notice the wishy washy language of "Although you may not be ..." when they could have correctly simply said (at least in regards to JWs) "Although you not ...".] The caption at the top of the page says 'From the early part of the 20th century down to our day, God's people have been "prophesying" '. Note that in the 1970s article they have the word 'prophet' in double quote marks while saying that JWs were a "prophet" and in the 2006 book they have the word 'prophesying' in double quote marks while saying that JWs (whom they refer to as God's people) have been "prophesying"! If JWs are prophesying then they are false prophets for much of what they are proclaiming is false. The WT is putting their JW followers into the category of being labeled as false prophets. Shame on the WT and its governing body for doing such.

On page 167 in reference to a prophecy in the book of Joel which says there would be a time when Jehovah's people (ancient Jews and/or Israelites) of every sort would prophecy, the WT dishonestly diminishes the meaning by saying "so to speak". The verses in Joel literally mean, in the full sense of the word "prophet", that the people would become prophets - with each of them literally receiving prophetic messages directly from Jehovah God by way of dreams and visions! The book of Joel did not simply mean in the sense of proclaiming messages found in the scriptures (as the WT implies on pages 166-167) but rather in the full sense of proclaiming messages that the people personally as individuals received directly from God (and thus literally as prophets)! Using the incorrect interpretation ("spin") on what the Bible says the WT on page 167 deceptively says the following.

'Now consider our time, Joel's prophecy has been undergoing its major fulfillment since early in the 20th century. Spirit-anointed Christians--male and female, old and young--began to "prophesy," that is, to declare "the magnificent things of God," including the good news of the kingdom, now established in the heavens.

Though not begotten by holy spirit to be sons of God, "a great crowd" of 'other sheep" are telling the anointed followers of Jesus Christ: "We will go with people, for we have heard that God is with you people." '

How can the WT's writers have a clean conscience when saying such deceptive and outright false things while also claiming to faithful Christians? This is evidence that the WT leadership and/or its writers are charalatans and playing JWs (and other readers of WT literature) as fools!

Notice also they have backtracked on who the "great crowd" are. In the late 1990s they correctly identified the great crowd (according to the Bible) as being a future group, specifically defined as those who have come out of the great tribulation. But in the 2006 publication they are saying that group already exists. They are repeating the mistake they made in the 1920s (or 1930s) up through the mid-1990s about the great crowd already existing. Everyone who was age 30 or older on January 1, 1930 are now dead and thus no one of them was ever part of a great crowd which came out of the great tribulation (nor who have any chance of coming out of the great tribulation) of the type mentioned in the book of Revelation!

Reading pages 165-167 of the above mentioned book irritates me and make even more want to officially resign from the JW religion (in writing) so I can repudiate the WT leadership and be on record for doing such and be on record for leaving their religion, except I refrain from doing so because I still wish to have social contact with my two surviving immediate JW family members.

9

Is the Watchtower Organization Playing a Practical Joke on JWs?

by Disillusioned JW in

by a number of its teachings, rules, and practices is the wt organization playing a practical joke on jws?.

Disillusioned JW

Maybe instead of saying "Is the Watchtower Organization Playing a Practical Joke on JWs?" I should have said "Does the Watchtower Organization Regard its Readers as Fools and are they Secretly Laughing at Them?"

The WT literature has many times used odd language where they say one thing but word it in such a way as to suggest something else. They have said that a number of JWs drew incorrect expectations about a number of things, including about 1914 and 1975, though it was the WT itself which proclaimed and taught those expectations in the WT's literature to JWs. The WT, after they said it was a conscious matter for JWs to accept non-military service (such as being medical workers) instead of having to go to prison for refusal to engage in combat, said JWs were foolish to reject such an option - even though the WT previously said that those accepting such an option would be committing a grave wrong. A tremendous number of times the WT has made extravagant claims and have told JWs that they must agree with what the WT says or risk being shunned, yet later the WT abandoned a number of its claims saying their own claims were in error .

9

Just another failed prophecy ...

by EdenOne in

so, i was going through some consolation magazines of 1939, and found this absolute prediction by rutherford:.

only 8 years later .....

oooooopssss......!!.

Disillusioned JW

Along the lines of the old Consolation article note what the WT wrote published as late as in 1946 in their 1946 edition of the "Let God Be True" book on pages 207-209 (see http://www.strictlygenteel.co.uk/letgodbetrue/godbetrue16.html ).

"If more Jews are in the future gathered to Palestine, it will only

208

be a political, humanitarian gesture, and not of God's provision according to prophecy. God's promises concerning restoration are being fulfilled upon his spiritual Israelites, Jehovah's witnesses, who are the remnant of faithful followers of His Messiah.

...

20 The facts and prophecies prove that the natural Jews will never again be a chosen, re-gathered people. They have as a people flagrantly rejected the Messiah, his truth and his

209

kingdom. It is a false hope that they must be regathered to Palestine and be converted in mass to Jesus Christ prior to his second coming and as a sign of the early establishment of his kingdom. God's kingdom was established A.D. 1914, and then Christ Jesus came into Kingdom power at his Father's right hand, and this without any mass conversion of natural Jews to Christ. Much of their suffering has been brought upon themselves by their commercial, rebellious course of action. They will ever be a target of assault by Satan and his agents until Armageddon cleanses the earth of all opposers of Messiah-Christ. Therefore, their only hope is to accept Jehovah's Messiah, Christ Jesus, and come under the protection of his kingdom."

14

Eye-Opener

by ElderStuckin in

each eye-opener in my awakening had nothing to do with apostates.

it was always by looking directly at the so-called spiritual food that helped me awaken.. in 2019 they changed the wording of the second of two baptismal questions which are answered aloud before the audience.

now i realize that these questions have been adjusted over the years.

Disillusioned JW

Maybe they removed "spirit-directed" because people claim the WT is in essence claiming inspiration while making false predictions and proclaiming false doctrine, and thus being a false prophet.

47

The Evidence of Human Evolution keeps getting stronger and stronger

by Disillusioned JW in

despite the wt's and young earth creationists' teachings against human evolution (namely macroevolution from non-humans) being a reality, the evidence of human evolution keeps getting stronger and stronger.. consider for example two science news articles and one other science article, each pertaining to the fossil that is nicknamed "little foot".

below are links to three science articles, listed in order of the articles from oldest to newest (except i don't see a date for one of the articles).

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2187639-exclusive-controversial-skeleton-may-be-a-new-species-of-early-human/.

Disillusioned JW

An interesting question posed in this topic thread is "How many beneficial mutations do you suppose it would take to get from Little Foot or Lucy to Homo Sapien in the proposed ~ 3 Million years?" In order to accurately calculate that we would need to know what the genome was for Little Foot and for Lucy. But we don't have that information because none of their genetic code has been preserved intact in their fossils, because the fossils are far to old. But even without that information there might be a way to estimate it.

What we do know is that the genetic code of modern day common chimpanzees and bonobos is about 96% the same with modern day Homo sapiens (previously the percentage was thought to be 98.8%; the 98.8% was calculated based only upon "single-nucleotide changes to the genetic code"). [See https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/chimps-humans-96-percent-the-same-gene-study-finds .] Both Little Foot and Lucy are much more closely related to us (which is known based upon comparisons of their skeletal structure) than modern day common chimpanzees and bonobos. As a result the genetic code of them when they were alive must have been even more identical to ours than are the chimps and bonobos to us. [Note: When some scientists use the word chimpanzees they are including bonobos in the classification called chimpanzees, along with the common chimpanzees, thus classifying two different species as chimpanzees. The bonobo, in the past was commonly also referred to as the "pygmy chimpanzee", and today it still sometimes is. Both common chimpanzees (Pan troglodytes) and bonobos (Pan paniscus) are of the same taxonomic genus, namely Pan. The genus name "Pan" means "chimpanzee".]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_(genus) says "The chimpanzee (P. troglodytes) who lives north of the Congo River, and the bonobo (P. paniscus) who lives south of it, were once considered to be the same species, but since 1928 they have been recognized as distinct.[6] In addition, P. troglodytes is divided into four subspecies, while P. paniscus is undivided. Based on genome sequencing, these two extant Pan species diverged around one million years ago. ... Chimpanzees and bonobos are equally humanity's closest living relatives." Sadly the article also says "Both Pan species are considered to be endangered as human activities have caused severe declines in the populations and ranges of both species."

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/chimps-humans-96-percent-the-same-gene-study-finds says the following.

"The number of genetic differences between humans and chimps is ten times smaller than that between mice and rats.

...

Despite the similarities in human and chimp genomes, the scientists identified some 40 million differences among the three billion DNA molecules, or nucleotides, in each genome.

The vast majority of those differences are not biologically significant, but researchers were able to identify a couple thousand differences that are potentially important to the evolution of the human lineage.

...

Eichler and his colleagues found that the human and chimp sequences differ by only 1.2 percent in terms of single-nucleotide changes to the genetic code.

But 2.7 percent of the genetic difference between humans and chimps are duplications, in which segments of genetic code are copied many times in the genome."

Some scientists go so far as to say that humans are apes.

The above article also says the following.

"Humans and chimps originate from a common ancestor, and scientists believe they diverged some six million years ago.

Given this relatively short time since the split, it's likely that a few important mutations are responsible for the differences between the two species, according to Wen-Hsiung Li, a molecular evolutionist at the University of Chicago in Illinois.

...

There are several hypotheses that account for the evolution of human traits. Li believes these traits come from changes in the parts of the genome that regulate other gene activity."

Regarding information of how life might have got started (abiogenesis) an excellent book on that topic (besides those listed in another post of mine in this topic thread) is Genesis: The Scientific Quest for Life's Origin, by Robert M Hazen (with a Forward by David W Deamer). See https://www.nhbs.com/genesis-the-scientific-quest-for-lifes-origin-book for a description of that book. I very much enjoyed reading that book.

19

Do You Support Cubans Protesting Against Communism?

by minimus in

jw
friends

some people have thrown their support for the government while others show support for the rebels.

what’s your opinion?.

Disillusioned JW

I approve of people protesting the abuses and incompetencies of their government(s), whether it is the government of Cuba, Gaza, Israel, China, Russia, France, Ireland, the U.K., USA, or of any other government - including what the Bible calls the theocratic government of Jehovah God during biblical times. Period! It also includes the 'government' of the WT over JWs.

I also approve of people protesting the abuses and incompetencies of the political system they live under, whether it is fascism, communism, socialism, democracy, republicanism, theocracy (so called), etc. Period!

135

Serious Question: Are You Hearing About Anyone With The Flu Anymore or A Cold?

by minimus in

jw
friends

for years everyone was told they had to get the flu shot.

because the flu was dangerous and it could even kill you.

now, hardly anyone talks about the flu or having a cold.

Disillusioned JW

I haven't had a flu since I first started getting flu shots 3.5 years ago. Prior to that I would get the flu at least once in every 2 year period if I had a steady job indoors around many other people. I haven't had a cold since I started wearing masks and maintaining social distance since about March of last year. Though I am now fully vaccinated against Covid-19 I still wear a mask around people (except while eating), but now I primarily wear the mask to avoid getting a cold.

55

'covid isnt real'

by joey jojo in

im not here to start a debate.. ive heard the above expression countless time over the past year and a half and genuinely want to know what it means.. if you feel this way, do you mean :.

a. there is no covid19 virus?.

b. covid19 is real but not a threat of any kind?.

Disillusioned JW

I never had much interest in social media sites (such as Facebook and Twitter) perhaps because I belong to one of the older generations instead of a young one, and also because I am much more interested in contemplation (and reading educational books in print) than I am in socializing. I had extended basic cable TV when it was included with my apartment, but when the USA switched broadcast TV service to digital only the apartment complex stopped including cable service in the apartment rental package. I am unwilling to pay for cable Tv service since I basically only watched a few cable stations anyway (CNN, CNBC, Discovery, History, and SciFi).

I get most of my news from reading news articles online (primarily via the Google https://news.google.com/ site) from traditional news sources; I don't bother watching many online news videos since I rather read a transcript of the news instead.

55

'covid isnt real'

by joey jojo in

im not here to start a debate.. ive heard the above expression countless time over the past year and a half and genuinely want to know what it means.. if you feel this way, do you mean :.

a. there is no covid19 virus?.

b. covid19 is real but not a threat of any kind?.

Disillusioned JW

Regarding checking out Fox News, that cable TV channel is one which more than 15 years ago I determined to be extremely unreliable in its commentary on news. Since about 15 years ago, I don't have cable TV anymore, thus all of my televised news (except when watching online videos in the public library or in the break room at work) is from broadcast television (PBS, ABC, CBS, NBC, and local news stations). Other than this site and an investing site, I make almost no use of social media sites.

20

"Resurrection" or "Re-Creation of The Soul"? What do really JW's teach?

by EdenOne in

interesting find through a book "inside story of jehovah's witnesses" (1967) by w.c. stevenson, supposedly a former jw circuit overseer.

it's an interesting "apostate" perspective written prior to the wts 1975 debacle.. anyway, at a certain point, there's a quote from a book called "the four cults", by professor anthony a. hoekema (1963, william b. eerdmans publishing company), a calvinist, which makes some sharp remarks about the way jehovah's witnesses teach the dead coming back to life:.

1) in the case of those "resurrecting" for everlasting life on earth, one asks: if the soul is extinct at death, and the body disintegrates and its components are integrated into other forms of life, what is there to "resurrect"?

Disillusioned JW

I notice you wrote: "Many of the arguments you make, is not from your understanding of the Bible but from the Watchtower’s interpretation of it. This is understandable to a point, given the indoctrination we all went through." I partly agree with that except, I say that some of my understanding of the Bible is the result of my exposure to the Watchtower's interpretation of it, rather than all of my biblical understanding being different from the Watchtower's interpretation of the Bible.

You see, I say some of their interpretation has become a part of my analysis and interpretation/understanding of the Bible - I had after all been a regular pioneer for virtually three full years and I was a ministerial servant for several years. I have retained those teachings of the WT which still seem correct to me (in the sense of being what I think the biblical writers meant, not necessarily in the sense of the biblical writers being correct - for I am an atheist) and I have read vastly more WT literature about the Bible than I have read of all the other literature about the Bible.

I have Bible commentaries by non-JWs but I have read little of what they say. I read them when I looking for an explanation of a particular scripture passage or a particular biblical topic. But, during the past 20 years I have made far more use of those commentaries and non-JW Bible translations (along with non-JW online articles, including atheistic articles about the Bible) for understanding the Bible than I have made use of publications of the WT.

I do notice that the WT has written and done numerous strange things, considering they are an organization which claims to be Christian and especially chosen by Jehovah God and Jesus Christ and directed by God's holy spirit.